BUT, before i begin...
Published on November 29, 2004 By JenPie In Politics
before i get on with my first article, i wanted to mention that i've been doing quite a bit of reading here on ju since i joined. i've made a few comments here and there, but i decided to lay low and get a feel for the general atmosphere here prior to jumping in with both feet. i must say, i am impressed and i applaud the majority of you...the constructive, well deliberated thought being expressed here far outweighs the spewing, bashing, name calling and cutting down (a definite plus in my book), of other places i've been. perhaps a lot of you migrated from other sites whose overall ambiance was the opposite of ju?? there are a few things i hope to do here...to make some friends; have productive (not destructive) discussion; listen and hopefully, learn from what other's have to say; and to express my own feelings, thoughts, and opinions.

anyhoo...

i've been following the discussion that was prompted by DNCdude's article, "Dems.in O6?" somewhere today we got to a point that i'd like to expand on. since the whole issue came up, i myself have mused over the idea of non-natural born citizens being able to run for the office of U.S. president. should this be changed? from one of DNCdude's inserts...

"Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) - Under the current rules, Arnold would not be allowed to hold the office of President because he was not born in the United States. But no one should let a petty thing like the Constitution get in their way. A group called www.OperationArnold.com is working to get Congress to change the highest law of the land, all for Arnold."

so, i'm curious...where do people stand on the subject of changing the constitution, that would allow people with circumstances similar to Arnold’s, the possibility of residing in the office of the U.S. president? i must admit, my immediate feelings are mixed. on one hand i believe that being a natural born citizen of the U.S. and thus being able to run for president, is kinda like the idea of baptism and original sin for Christians (i'm not sure if anyone else will see the correlation...which might make this whole train of thought a bunch of psycho-babble ). however, and while trying to avoid a huge religious discussion...just like many people who convert religiously, many people become U.S. citizens. is this enough? if a person's conviction about becoming a citizen of a place they were not born in is so great, does that lend them the worthiness to run for U.S. president?? BUT, then i think...where was their conviction for their own homeland? why didn't they strive to make positive changes in their place of origin? did they just jump ship?

so, i'll ask again...should the honor of running for or being president of the U.S. be reserved solely for those who are natural born citizens? obviously, the fathers of our country felt it was important enough that we have protected this practice for centuries. BUT, does that make it right? i just don't know.

Comments
on Nov 29, 2004
natural born citizens only please!


of course IMHO that is.
on Nov 29, 2004
the fathers of our country felt it was important enough


I'll stick with those guys.
on Nov 29, 2004
For every person who wants Ahnold now, they need to remember they get this passed there will be more after Ahnold. If Ahnold had never made a movie but instead went straight to politics from body building, there would be absolutely zero interest in making this an ammendment. As much as I know from first hand experience how patriotic naturalized Americans are, they still have ideas brewing from their own countries. My own wife, for example, if she were president, she would pardon all illegal aliens. She doesn't really know about the problems they create on social systems, population concerns, and that it sets a horrible precedent that will cause even more illegal aliens who try to enter the country.
on Nov 29, 2004
As much as I know from first hand experience how patriotic naturalized Americans are, they still have ideas brewing from their own countries.


whoman69...i tend to agree with this line of thought. deep down, wouldn't a person's attachment to their original place of existence be much more resolute?
on Nov 29, 2004
I don't know. I have this feeling that naturalized citizens have more invested in citizenship (and a greater knowledge of our system of government in many cases) than many of us born here, and in a way cherish citizenship all the more because it was a choice. They at least had to pass a test!

I'm not afraid of the idea the way some are. Lot of work to amend the Constitution, but there is a logical argument for it. After all, we grant citizenship to anyone whose mother can get across the border in time to deliver. That doesn't seem any more logical to me than granting a naturalized citizen the opportunity to run for president. Any naturalized citizen would have to pass muster in all the same ways a natural-born candidate would, and be judged on his or her character, policies & actions to have a prayer of being nominated. I'd have to read up on whatever documentation exists underpinning that requirement, but I have a feeling it made more sense in 1787 than it might today.

And welcome. You've made a very good first impression here.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Nov 30, 2004
And welcome. You've made a very good first impression here.


Daiwa...thanks much!
on Dec 01, 2004
I would think that one reason the writers of the Constitution flet that only naturally born citizens should qualify is because it would provide a protection against outside "invasion". If immigrants could be president, I have this feeling that, hypothetically, one could be used to gain access into the White House by a not so benevolent foreign nation. Therefore, I am adamantly against an amendment to enable this to happen.

I sure don't think this is the case for Ahnold, but I just don't like him, anyway. Whoman, I think you're right about the acting thing. Bodybuilding is just not enough of a popularity builder.
on Dec 01, 2004
Therefore, I am adamantly against an amendment to enable this to happen.


OMG...we actually agree on something dabe! Miracles never cease.
on Dec 01, 2004
OMG...we actually agree on something dabe! Miracles never cease.


Ya see...... there is hope, after all.
on Dec 01, 2004
If immigrants could be president, I have this feeling that, hypothetically, one could be used to gain access into the White House by a not so benevolent foreign nation.


i tend to agree. and i believe it's like the concept of, "you can take the girl/boy out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the girl/boy." that certainly could apply here. to what country is a naturalized citizen's true allegiance; where do their hearts really lie? and what would they do if they thought the U.S. did something (founded or unfounded), to threaten the welfare of their original homeland?
on Dec 01, 2004

Let's pose a hypothetical situation.


Suppose Austria committed a clear act of aggression against the United States that demanded retaliation. Do you really think Arnie could cluster bomb Vienna? I think it's highly unlikely, and I believe it is that exact scenario the founding fathers envisioned when drafting the constitution.


There are many worthwhile and valuable offices naturalized citizens can and do hold. The office of President should NEVER be one of them.

on Dec 01, 2004
I'm a staunch Republican and I love Arnold but I have to agree Whoman69. If you change the Constitution now for Arnold you will have plenty of others to follow later. It's a very dangerous precendent as many of you have pointed out. There are some things in the Constitution you just shouldn't mess with it. Especially when it's something that was written in originally and not amended on later. You start messing with this fundemental rule what comes next? Change the age requirement? The Founding Fathers had a very good reason to have this rule. The President should be someone who truly understands America and is a representative of it's culture. I feel the only way this can happen is if you're born here and have no foreign allegiance and longing. A foreign born President could end up being confused as to where their true loyalty lies when it comes to war and other issues. Would a Cuban born President be as tough on Cuba (or even unnecessarily harsher)? Would a Chinese born President be as wary of the Communist govt.? Would a Mexican born President be able to make clear decisions when it comes to border control? Until there is a drought of qualified, native born leaders we should stick to what the Constitution has spelled out. Sorry Arnie, but you've hit the glass ceiling.
on Dec 01, 2004
Seems you guys don't have much faith in the system, thinking that a naturalized citizen would be able to fool everyone all the way to the White House, then switch sides or not hold America's interests uppermost. Suppose a Cuban family snuck into the US illegally and had a child here who was raised entirely in a Cubano community that maintained close ties with extended family members in Cuba. That individual would eventually be eligible to run for President. And without having to take a test.

Just playing devil's advocate a bit.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Dec 02, 2004
If you change the Constitution now for Arnold you will have plenty of others to follow later. It's a very dangerous precendent as many of you have pointed out. There are some things in the Constitution you just shouldn't mess with it. Especially when it's something that was written in originally and not amended on later. You start messing with this fundemental rule what comes next? Change the age requirement? The Founding Fathers had a very good reason to have this rule. The President should be someone who truly understands America and is a representative of it's culture. I feel the only way this can happen is if you're born here and have no foreign allegiance and longing. A foreign born President could end up being confused as to where their true loyalty lies when it comes to war and other issues. Would a Cuban born President be as tough on Cuba (or even unnecessarily harsher)? Would a Chinese born President be as wary of the Communist govt.? Would a Mexican born President be able to make clear decisions when it comes to border control? Until there is a drought of qualified, native born leaders we should stick to what the Constitution has spelled out. Sorry Arnie, but you've hit the glass ceiling.


Wow very to the point post. I agree competely with you.